Vyasa (USA) visited Amma in Amritapuri in 1982. This is part 2 of Vyasa’s interview by Priyan. (Read part 1)
Q: “What are some special moments with Amma that you remember from these days?”
A: “Well, Amma was literally with us all the time. She ate with us, fed us, meditated with us, sang bhajans with us. I fell sick once and she came to check on me in my hut regularly, showing caring, concern and at the same time She made me feel that after all, the sickness of the body was not that important! Bhajans took place right outside the cowshed.
“I remember asking her once, still intrigued by the bhavas: “Is Devi real?” She answered with a smile: “She is as real as you are!”. The goal for all of us back then was ‘Self Realization”, so everyone did maximum practices to get closer to this goal. About this, I asked Amma once: “When will I know that I have become realized?” She answered: “When you realize that you are none other than me!”
On another occasion I asked her about the Hatha Yoga practices that I was trying to keep daily. She didn’t give it any importance, making me feel that she feared that they could bring forth and encourage yet another identity that the ego would enjoy holding, with pride! As soon as realized this aspect, she added that it was OK that I keep doing my yoga. But now I had become aware not to allow the ego to make an identity out of it. She warned me once also, not to start pranayama practices unless it is with a Realized teacher.
One time too, as we were walking near a Tulasi plant, she pointed at it and said that she once lived a whole year simply on Tulasi leaves!! She added laughing: ‘But don’t try to do it yourself, you won’t be able to survive…”
Q: “In those days, did you or anyone ever imagine that this place could become what it is today?”
A: “Absolutely not! The focus then was just on doing spiritual practices, mainly meditation and devotional singing, spending maximum time with Amma, with the goal of attaining God Realization without any distractions. Even seva was considered as a way, an excuse for the ego to disrupt the practices. I can say that the change happened as Amma felt the need to make us feel more compassion for others, serving them and thus being less self-centred. Everything just came at its right time, as she must have planned it… But I would have never thought that her mission amongst us would include having big charitable work, institutions, etc. Those high building rising right here now, are like a dream reality compared to the olden days.”
Vyasa stopped for a moment, and added:
“But from 1987 onwards, I mean when She started with Her world tours, I could see that she would have a presence in ‘The World’ and that it was going to expand. Still, all this is a true miracle, as in 1982-83, the few who lived with Her had barely the needed to get fed. For example, seeing the pitiful conditions of the kitchen utensils and plates, cups and spoons that we were using were, I went to Oachira one day with a couple of ‘hut boys’ (as the brahmacharis were called) and I was happy to offer a whole set of new stainless plates, cups, spoons and cooking vessels.
“What I remember the most from that trip to Oachira though, is that on our way back in the taxi, one of the brahmacharis informed me that last night, Amma told him that it would be good if we got some new kitchen utensils. This completely blew my mind of, as I felt that Amma had the power to invade my mind and thoughts and make me go buy all this!! I felt that she was more in control over my mind than I myself do!! I was shaken by this thought…”
Q: “So, how long did you stay here on that first visit?”
A: “Three months. Initially, my intention was to stay at least for 3 years, but I did not create illusions to pretend that I didn’t still have attachments to various things in the world. And I was particularly missing my young boy whom I had left in Santa Fe. So I stayed from August to October 1982, then flew back home.”
“My daily connection to Amma remained very strong. I had brought with me photos of Her, bhajans cassettes and a video, which I started showing around while sharing my experience. One person, who was immediately and irresistibly touched by Amma was a young woman living in my neighbourhood. She actually came with me back to India few months later and is since known as Kusuma. She helped prepare Amma’s first visit to the USA in 1987. So, when I was back the second time to Amma in 1983 I was accompanied by Kusuma and Kristin my teen-age daughter.”
Q: “Were there changes to the place during your absence?”
A: “Well, there were a few more huts built and a few more people living with Amma. The ashram was now legally registered with the government. Also, the cowshed had been put down and was now replaced by a more solid cement structure, which is exactly what the Kalari is today, with a cement floor and cement walls.”
Q: “You seem particularly centred on the Kalari. Any particular special memories related to it?”
A: “Of course many. Today, it is the only place that remains as it was back then. It is the place where I got my mantra diksha (initiation) from Amma. I remember it was the 2nd October 1982. The same day that Rao (Swami Amritatmananda) got it! I remember the date, because after my initiation I went to my hut and Nealu took a photo of me with a calendar showing the date hanging right behind me. In the morning I had asked Amma for a mantra. She agreed and said she would do it after the Krishna and Devi Bhavas. She instructed me to take a shower before the start of the Bhavas. According to the tradition I took a shower with the clothes on. Then She said that I should prepare a plate of fruits and just sit and wait behind the cowshed till the very end and She’ll send someone to call me. I was in a very elevated state. Amma received me in the cowshed, with just one of the brahmacharis with us. She made me sit on the peetham (Her chair) and whispered the mantra in my right ear, while the brahmachari closed my left ear….”
Q: “What about the photos that you took inside this temple? Those oldest photos existing today of Amma’s Krishna and Devi bhavas?”
A: “Well, this was truly unique and very precious. Nealu knew that it was not appropriate for him to take the photos. So, he pushed me to just carry the camera, go inside the temple during the bhavas, and take photos! I did. No one was pleased with this; but Amma didn’t show that this bothered Her. I started clicking and clicking, each time daring to get closer to Amma, and trying various angles. Sometimes I was just 2 feet away from her!!
“Some of the most special photos are those of Amma giving darshan to Dattan the leper and licking his wounds. These well-known photos were taken by me. I remember that in 1983, I was once in Oachira and heard someone calling me. I turned back and it took me a moment to realize that it was Dattan. His wounds were fully healed, the skin was dry and parts of his face had regenerated.
“As everyone was uncomfortable with me taking the photos, I took once the opportunity to ask Amma whether it was a problem that I did it and if I should stop. Her answer was striking: ‘In this, do whatever you feel, but don’t hesitate!’
Q: how did u get your name?
A: “Another time, as we were casually gathered around her, some brahmacharis were saying that they had difficulties pronouncing my name (Gregory). Amma said: ‘Then from now on he will be Vyasa…’ This is how I got my name!”
Q: “Vyasa, the last matter we want to hear from you about is the kaimanis (hand cymbals). I heard that you have been making them for the ashram and for Amma since many years.”
A: “Yes, correct. This is the whole story: During my first visits here, when listening to the bhajans, I felt that everything was perfectly in tune, except for the kaimanis, which seemed out of tune. I took a set of them with me to the US and tried to fix this. It was a very refined work, so I began to study bell metals and bell physics, and decided to try to make new kaimanis myself. After further research I found the correct metal blend needed and the best proportions to use, and I taught myself how to make models and started casting them (putting the metal in molds). When done, I worked on fine tuning them to get the ideal sounds. From then on, each year when Amma visited the US, I had improved new sets of kaimanis to give to the swamis. Amma has a pair that I made for her too. She carries it around the world with Her. Every time She uses it, She reminds those around about ‘Vyasa’, the american old-time devotee who learned how to make them. She often adds that I was the first american to travel all the way from the US to meet Her in India!!
“Right now, while I am at Amritapuri, I am teaching the musicians here how to improve the sound and quality of the Kaimanis that they use, and eventually how to make them.”
Q: “Having visited Amma here 31 years ago, what do you have to say about the occasion we are celebrating this year: Amma’s 60th Birthday?”
A: “I think all this doesn’t mean anything to Her. She is happy just because people use this occasion to be themselves happy… Actually, I see clearly that the real Amma is still the very same. I mean that one can still get the exact same spiritual benefit from coming to Her, provided he/she opens up properly. She still gives and gives and gives very generously… She did it before to 20/50 people and now to Millions; and still She is the same, unaffected by the numbers or by any other consideration.
“She still finds the best ways to reach the deeper layers in each one and make us learn and growth spiritually. She is unique. She was so in 1982, when I met Her first and She was just 29 years old, and still is today as She is turning 60!!!”
The end.
